NEWS FLASH: According to Pentagon sources, the United States Air Force is once again considering reinstating their Warrant Officer Program. Warrant Officers are a rank structure all US Armed Forces have in place sandwiched between the Enlisted grades and the Officer ranks, but has not been staffed in the USAF since the last active duty Air Force warrant officer, CWO4 James H. Long, retired in 1980. The last Air Force Reserve warrant officer, CWO4 Bob Barrow, retired in 1992. As the main reason for reinstating the Air Force’s Warrant Officer Program, sources point to the rapid loss of highly trained Airmen at the Enlisted Technical Sergeant rank to higher paying fields in the civilian workforce. According to the source, the argument behind reinstatement of the Air Force’s Warrant Officer Program would be to act as an incentive for those skilled Airmen to stay in the military with higher rank, better pay and more respect across the services. Studies are being mounted to examine the impact on Air Force morale that such a reinstatement would create. At issue are the top Master Sergeant ranks and if there would be a place for these rates after reinstatement of the USAF Warrant Officer Program. Though the Warrant Officer pay-grades still exist in the Air Force’s rank structure, one has not been appointed in that service since 1959.
I always thought that bringing back warrant officers would be a good idea. The advantage would be that WOs would be able to replace alot of expensive civilians and contractors. The disadvantage is the WO retirement is going to be a lot higher then E retirement.
If they brought WOs into the mix they could lower some enlistment bonuses though. I bet a WO retirement is cheaper then an enlisted contracting specialists bonus of $90k every 4 years.
They would only replace civilians and contractors if congress ups our manpower numbers. A lot of our woes could be solved if they’d let us have more people.
Where did you get this from? Google isn’t turning up anything so I’m very skeptical. Would love to have a WO option, my career field is dying for an option to keep the very tech savvy folks from bailing once the AF has paid for some high level training.
In my opinion, if you do not receive flight pay, you shouldn’t wear a flight suit.
I worked damn hard to get my wings, just becuase someone works in a flying unit does not entitle them to wear one!
Crew Chiefs, Ravens, etc, if you dont have wings, you dont need a fight syut, period.
Ravens do get flight pay if they fly enough…
Hazardous Duty Incentive Pay, Flying Duty
Hazardous Duty Incentive Pay (HDIP) is payable to personnel who are required to fly a minimum of four hours per month while serving as crew members performing duties essential to the operation of an aircraft, or duties required for a mission that only can be accomplished with an in-flight aircraft.
See 36-2903, para 3.2 for who can wear a flight suit.
3.2. Aircrew Flight Dress Uniforms. (OPR: HQ USAF/A3) MAJCOMs or organizations requiring
exception to Flight Dress Uniform (FDU) or aircrew Desert Flight Dress Uniform (DFDU) wear policy
should submit Exception to Policy (ETP) request through MAJCOM channels to HQ USAF/A3OT.
3.2.1. General. Personnel authorized wear of the aircrew FDU/DFDU will comply with this instruction,
as well as applicable MAJCOM and installation supplements, regardless of AFSC or unit of
assignment.
3.2.1.1. The FDU/DFDU is authorized for wear by; personnel assigned to a position identified
with Aircrew Position Identifier (API) 1 thru 9 and A thru G (Rated Officers or Career Enlisted
Aviators 1AXXX), Rated officers assigned to an API-0 positions that are on active aeronautical
orders, or those personnel identified as Operations Support/Non-interference flyers currently on
active aeronautical orders to perform inflight aircrew or parachutist duties IAW AFI 11-401, Aviation
Management, Atch 3, or as authorized in AS016. Additionally, the FDU/DFDU is authorized
for wear by personnel in the following Space/Missile Crew AFSCs 13SXA, 13SXB, 13SXC,
13SXD, 13SXE and 1C6XX. Airmen authorized special articles of clothing under an allowance
standard will wear the uniform prescribed by the local unit commander and recommended for the
type of mission performed. FDUs/DFDUs are authorized functional clothing for those authorized
individuals performing flying, parachutist, space and missile crew duties: Flight duty includes
preparation, preflight, in-flight, post-flight, and other flight-related duties associated with aircraft
operations. Space operations duties will be defined by MAJCOM supplement to this instruction.
3.2.1.2. Flight clothing worn by personnel not on aeronautical orders (authorized under AS016) is
restricted to flight-related duties. These personnel may not wear flight clothing on days when
actual flying is not planned/anticipated. EXCEPTION: Space/Missile crew FDU/DFDU wear
guidance will be outlined in MAJCOM supplements to this instruction.
3.2.1.3.
HA, thats just the general AI, there are countless SUP’s that allow individuals like myself (Dedicated Crew Chief) to wear them. As opposed to normal blue or green coveralls, the DCC “Flight Suit” sets him above his peers, hence becoming a DCC. And as Dea is right, its not nice to put down your ground crew….
Flight clothing worn by personnel not on aeronautical orders (authorized under AS016) is restricted to flight-related duties. These personnel may not wear flight clothing on days when actual flying is not planned/anticipated
Flying a desk is not flying. Lets get all these people back into proper uniform. One example, I was with USTRANSCOM for my last tour. No planes, no flying but day after day after day these guys wore flight suits even on blue mondays and they bragged/teased those of us who had too……NOT to mention that flight suits are bought FOR them.
Maybe it’s because I have never worn one, but when I see a flight suit, I don’t ever thing the person in pajamas is special. I just automatically assume they have an attitude that doesn’t support core values, brings morale lower, and feels their soul purpose in life is to make things harder on those they look down on. I guess this is just a true Maintainer’s view, all you non’ers can go back to feeling better about yourselves then you deserve.
You do realize the AF is centered around the flyer and the aircraft. To be a pilot/aircrew in the Air Force is the same as being a ship captain in the Navy. It’s what a lot of people aspire to be. Sure, some bag wearers in the military are rude and think they’re all that and a bag of chips (pointy nose types *cough), but the wings are earned through long training periods and grueling survival courses. Honestly, if you wear wings, I think you should be proud of the accomplishments you’ve made and gain the rewards that come with it, i.e. the flight suit. So try not to let the uniform itself be a sign of hate and contempt. Let the individual wearing the bag be that symbol. There are plenty of folks I know who wear the flight suit that follow AF core values and are actually very pleasant individuals. The flight suit is something to strive for IMO, not something to hate.
Not that my opinion matters, but I have to maintain that the flight suit is a functional uniform and should be treated as one. Reason is I went through all those trainings and survival courses, earned my wings and wore the bag for several years before being told I could no longer fly. Though I still have my wings, I no longer wear the bag because my job no longer requires it, nor would I if authorized because I don’t see it as a reward or status symbol. The A-2 jacket, however, is another story, and I do still wear mine in blues because I’ve been permanently awarded it. I believe wings, if you want them, should be something to strive for.
I dare you to go up to a crew chief and tell him that he shouldn’t be wearing a flight suit. You’ll lose whatever respect they may have for you, and they can make your life as a pilot miserable, and no one will touch them for it. A pilot’s best asset is his/her crew, piss them off and you’re screwed.
You assume I care what a crew chief thinks of me. In fact, you assume anyone cares what a crew chief thinks about anything not directly related to the bird.
I’m going to assume either a) you’re not flight crew or b) you’re joking. If you really are a pilot and you’re an asshole to your MX guys, you’re missing out. Will the plane still be kept up the way it is directed to be? yes. Will they go the extra mile for you and work with you to make you better at your job? No, and a good relationship with someone who might be able to teach you something could just be important, and its the reason you’ll be a nothing for the rest of your career.
At the end of the day too, regardless of whether you are a pilot or a aircraft tech, we are on the same team.
Consider that your flight crew has likely been on the flight line or in the hanger preparing your aircraft hours prior to your flight, and they will still be there hours after you land and leave making the aircraft ready for your next successful flight. We are also out there on the flightline during the start and shut-down sequence in the heat, rain, snow, or whatever environmental condition you are protected from it in the cockpit.
The ground crews are guilty too of arrogance. All we see of your job as a pilot is the aircraft coming home broken and cryptic unspecific notes in the snag log and we get annoyed because they expect us to somehow visually or electronically see the cause based on little or no information.
Lets face it both sides are guilty, We really have no idea of what you are doing with the aircraft when it leaves and what is ‘normal flight operations’ so it is hard for us to see why things happen; And pilots have no idea what it takes to maintain an aircraft ready for the demands of military flight operations. Ask to see what the other party does, or shadow them for a day. You’d be amazed and you’d have a new appreciation of what they do and why things happen.
I’m retired. Never touched a bird. Was never near birds.
Remember that without CE, none of you have a base, nor a flight line from which to operate.
Ironically, most of the pilots and maintainers were professional, ladies and gentlemen. It was the E aircrews and crew chiefs who were self-aggrandizing twits. Neither of them were of any import to my career. They sure acted like it, though.
So, no, they had nothing to teach me, and they weren’t interested in learning, either.
This is your chance to tell me how much better you are than me…understanding that I don’t care.;-) I came out with an advanced degree and now contract. So my career did go a few places.
Keep in mind:
Most of the AF is on the ground.
Not every base has aircraft. Every base has engineers.
At the end of the day, we’re supposed to be on the same team. Wearing a bag really doesn’t mean anything.
My family covers many of the AF world, including a CE brother in law (Red Horse) two medical types, a diesel mechanic brother turned mechanical engineer, comm guys, and in the other branches, ground pounders, pilots, etc etc.
As I was replying to a pilot who had issues with their crew wearing the flight suits I believe my post was valid and relevant to him. No one here is saying they are better than you.
Flightsuits- I was authorized to wear one due to flight duties but wasn’t so full of myself that I wore it when not needed, like when working in the shop, or off duty (you know who you are!) wandering around the BX/PX at lunchtime, or sitting in the dorm playing flight sim games…come on really dude?!
As for WO..well I recieved my monthly call from the AirForce asking me to return…that’s going on nearly 5 years now, maybe next time I’ll give ‘em a stipulation…WO or no go. :p
As a Army WO, I can tell you that the technical side of the house is pretty good (I’m a Air Traffic Airspace Manager Tech., 150A). I answer to commanders on air traffic control matters, I work closely with the AF on airspace matters that fall within the Army battlespace. I have found that I get treated differently from the AF officers now then when I was a NCO. I hope this is true for the AF.
hahaha ha
NEWS FLASH: According to Pentagon sources, the United States Air Force is once again considering reinstating their Warrant Officer Program. Warrant Officers are a rank structure all US Armed Forces have in place sandwiched between the Enlisted grades and the Officer ranks, but has not been staffed in the USAF since the last active duty Air Force warrant officer, CWO4 James H. Long, retired in 1980. The last Air Force Reserve warrant officer, CWO4 Bob Barrow, retired in 1992. As the main reason for reinstating the Air Force’s Warrant Officer Program, sources point to the rapid loss of highly trained Airmen at the Enlisted Technical Sergeant rank to higher paying fields in the civilian workforce. According to the source, the argument behind reinstatement of the Air Force’s Warrant Officer Program would be to act as an incentive for those skilled Airmen to stay in the military with higher rank, better pay and more respect across the services. Studies are being mounted to examine the impact on Air Force morale that such a reinstatement would create. At issue are the top Master Sergeant ranks and if there would be a place for these rates after reinstatement of the USAF Warrant Officer Program. Though the Warrant Officer pay-grades still exist in the Air Force’s rank structure, one has not been appointed in that service since 1959.
This, right here, is exciting news if they go ahead with it. I’ve seriously considered applying to be an Army WO.
what sources confirm this?
I always thought that bringing back warrant officers would be a good idea. The advantage would be that WOs would be able to replace alot of expensive civilians and contractors. The disadvantage is the WO retirement is going to be a lot higher then E retirement.
If they brought WOs into the mix they could lower some enlistment bonuses though. I bet a WO retirement is cheaper then an enlisted contracting specialists bonus of $90k every 4 years.
They would only replace civilians and contractors if congress ups our manpower numbers. A lot of our woes could be solved if they’d let us have more people.
Sure now that I am retiring……
I would have gone that route if it was available.
I’m calling BS on this until you provide a link from a credible source.
They were talking about this in AF times months ago… we’ll see what happens. Any guesses to what career fields would have them?
Where did you get this from? Google isn’t turning up anything so I’m very skeptical. Would love to have a WO option, my career field is dying for an option to keep the very tech savvy folks from bailing once the AF has paid for some high level training.
I get my flight suit sometime this week
Tinker, I love you.
In my opinion, if you do not receive flight pay, you shouldn’t wear a flight suit.
I worked damn hard to get my wings, just becuase someone works in a flying unit does not entitle them to wear one!
Crew Chiefs, Ravens, etc, if you dont have wings, you dont need a fight syut, period.
And yes I know I cant spell…dang it…
Ravens do get flight pay if they fly enough…
Hazardous Duty Incentive Pay, Flying Duty
Hazardous Duty Incentive Pay (HDIP) is payable to personnel who are required to fly a minimum of four hours per month while serving as crew members performing duties essential to the operation of an aircraft, or duties required for a mission that only can be accomplished with an in-flight aircraft.
See 36-2903, para 3.2 for who can wear a flight suit.
Crew Chiefs and Ravens can burn also. It is a functional suit not just so you look like Tom Cruise
3.2. Aircrew Flight Dress Uniforms. (OPR: HQ USAF/A3) MAJCOMs or organizations requiring
exception to Flight Dress Uniform (FDU) or aircrew Desert Flight Dress Uniform (DFDU) wear policy
should submit Exception to Policy (ETP) request through MAJCOM channels to HQ USAF/A3OT.
3.2.1. General. Personnel authorized wear of the aircrew FDU/DFDU will comply with this instruction,
as well as applicable MAJCOM and installation supplements, regardless of AFSC or unit of
assignment.
3.2.1.1. The FDU/DFDU is authorized for wear by; personnel assigned to a position identified
with Aircrew Position Identifier (API) 1 thru 9 and A thru G (Rated Officers or Career Enlisted
Aviators 1AXXX), Rated officers assigned to an API-0 positions that are on active aeronautical
orders, or those personnel identified as Operations Support/Non-interference flyers currently on
active aeronautical orders to perform inflight aircrew or parachutist duties IAW AFI 11-401, Aviation
Management, Atch 3, or as authorized in AS016. Additionally, the FDU/DFDU is authorized
for wear by personnel in the following Space/Missile Crew AFSCs 13SXA, 13SXB, 13SXC,
13SXD, 13SXE and 1C6XX. Airmen authorized special articles of clothing under an allowance
standard will wear the uniform prescribed by the local unit commander and recommended for the
type of mission performed. FDUs/DFDUs are authorized functional clothing for those authorized
individuals performing flying, parachutist, space and missile crew duties: Flight duty includes
preparation, preflight, in-flight, post-flight, and other flight-related duties associated with aircraft
operations. Space operations duties will be defined by MAJCOM supplement to this instruction.
3.2.1.2. Flight clothing worn by personnel not on aeronautical orders (authorized under AS016) is
restricted to flight-related duties. These personnel may not wear flight clothing on days when
actual flying is not planned/anticipated. EXCEPTION: Space/Missile crew FDU/DFDU wear
guidance will be outlined in MAJCOM supplements to this instruction.
3.2.1.3.
what is left out there is us 1U0X1 guys, don’t hate we are aircrew too..
HA, thats just the general AI, there are countless SUP’s that allow individuals like myself (Dedicated Crew Chief) to wear them. As opposed to normal blue or green coveralls, the DCC “Flight Suit” sets him above his peers, hence becoming a DCC. And as Dea is right, its not nice to put down your ground crew….
Flight clothing worn by personnel not on aeronautical orders (authorized under AS016) is restricted to flight-related duties. These personnel may not wear flight clothing on days when actual flying is not planned/anticipated
Flying a desk is not flying. Lets get all these people back into proper uniform. One example, I was with USTRANSCOM for my last tour. No planes, no flying but day after day after day these guys wore flight suits even on blue mondays and they bragged/teased those of us who had too……NOT to mention that flight suits are bought FOR them.
Maybe it’s because I have never worn one, but when I see a flight suit, I don’t ever thing the person in pajamas is special. I just automatically assume they have an attitude that doesn’t support core values, brings morale lower, and feels their soul purpose in life is to make things harder on those they look down on. I guess this is just a true Maintainer’s view, all you non’ers can go back to feeling better about yourselves then you deserve.
nice, hence why I turn wrenches and not type all day: thing = think and soul = sole
former maintainer here so I know the value
You do realize the AF is centered around the flyer and the aircraft. To be a pilot/aircrew in the Air Force is the same as being a ship captain in the Navy. It’s what a lot of people aspire to be. Sure, some bag wearers in the military are rude and think they’re all that and a bag of chips (pointy nose types *cough), but the wings are earned through long training periods and grueling survival courses. Honestly, if you wear wings, I think you should be proud of the accomplishments you’ve made and gain the rewards that come with it, i.e. the flight suit. So try not to let the uniform itself be a sign of hate and contempt. Let the individual wearing the bag be that symbol. There are plenty of folks I know who wear the flight suit that follow AF core values and are actually very pleasant individuals. The flight suit is something to strive for IMO, not something to hate.
Not that my opinion matters, but I have to maintain that the flight suit is a functional uniform and should be treated as one. Reason is I went through all those trainings and survival courses, earned my wings and wore the bag for several years before being told I could no longer fly. Though I still have my wings, I no longer wear the bag because my job no longer requires it, nor would I if authorized because I don’t see it as a reward or status symbol. The A-2 jacket, however, is another story, and I do still wear mine in blues because I’ve been permanently awarded it. I believe wings, if you want them, should be something to strive for.
Anyway, this’ll all be addressed in the story.
So if your not on orders and not flying, dont wear it.
I dare you to go up to a crew chief and tell him that he shouldn’t be wearing a flight suit. You’ll lose whatever respect they may have for you, and they can make your life as a pilot miserable, and no one will touch them for it. A pilot’s best asset is his/her crew, piss them off and you’re screwed.
You assume I care what a crew chief thinks of me. In fact, you assume anyone cares what a crew chief thinks about anything not directly related to the bird.
I’m going to assume either a) you’re not flight crew or b) you’re joking. If you really are a pilot and you’re an asshole to your MX guys, you’re missing out. Will the plane still be kept up the way it is directed to be? yes. Will they go the extra mile for you and work with you to make you better at your job? No, and a good relationship with someone who might be able to teach you something could just be important, and its the reason you’ll be a nothing for the rest of your career.
At the end of the day too, regardless of whether you are a pilot or a aircraft tech, we are on the same team.
Consider that your flight crew has likely been on the flight line or in the hanger preparing your aircraft hours prior to your flight, and they will still be there hours after you land and leave making the aircraft ready for your next successful flight. We are also out there on the flightline during the start and shut-down sequence in the heat, rain, snow, or whatever environmental condition you are protected from it in the cockpit.
The ground crews are guilty too of arrogance. All we see of your job as a pilot is the aircraft coming home broken and cryptic unspecific notes in the snag log and we get annoyed because they expect us to somehow visually or electronically see the cause based on little or no information.
Lets face it both sides are guilty, We really have no idea of what you are doing with the aircraft when it leaves and what is ‘normal flight operations’ so it is hard for us to see why things happen; And pilots have no idea what it takes to maintain an aircraft ready for the demands of military flight operations. Ask to see what the other party does, or shadow them for a day. You’d be amazed and you’d have a new appreciation of what they do and why things happen.
It worked for me.
CORRECTION: in the second paragraph I meant to type “ground crew” not “flight crew”
I’m retired. Never touched a bird. Was never near birds.
Remember that without CE, none of you have a base, nor a flight line from which to operate.
Ironically, most of the pilots and maintainers were professional, ladies and gentlemen. It was the E aircrews and crew chiefs who were self-aggrandizing twits. Neither of them were of any import to my career. They sure acted like it, though.
So, no, they had nothing to teach me, and they weren’t interested in learning, either.
This is your chance to tell me how much better you are than me…understanding that I don’t care.;-) I came out with an advanced degree and now contract. So my career did go a few places.
Keep in mind:
Most of the AF is on the ground.
Not every base has aircraft. Every base has engineers.
At the end of the day, we’re supposed to be on the same team. Wearing a bag really doesn’t mean anything.
My family covers many of the AF world, including a CE brother in law (Red Horse) two medical types, a diesel mechanic brother turned mechanical engineer, comm guys, and in the other branches, ground pounders, pilots, etc etc.
As I was replying to a pilot who had issues with their crew wearing the flight suits I believe my post was valid and relevant to him. No one here is saying they are better than you.
If your not acutally flying, dont wear them. Why do missle guys and Predator crews wear them? In case the computer catches fire?
Flightsuits- I was authorized to wear one due to flight duties but wasn’t so full of myself that I wore it when not needed, like when working in the shop, or off duty (you know who you are!) wandering around the BX/PX at lunchtime, or sitting in the dorm playing flight sim games…come on really dude?!
As for WO..well I recieved my monthly call from the AirForce asking me to return…that’s going on nearly 5 years now, maybe next time I’ll give ‘em a stipulation…WO or no go. :p
My brother in law was in flight medicine and had to wear one, he uses them as coveralls when he works on his cars now.
I wonder if they’ll let some of us no-prior-service types that have the skillz join as WOCs…
like Computer guys or what not
LOL for Coffman. He’s such a blast
*Snicker*
As a Army WO, I can tell you that the technical side of the house is pretty good (I’m a Air Traffic Airspace Manager Tech., 150A). I answer to commanders on air traffic control matters, I work closely with the AF on airspace matters that fall within the Army battlespace. I have found that I get treated differently from the AF officers now then when I was a NCO. I hope this is true for the AF.